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	<title>Comments on: Beer School: Sour Beer &#8211; The Last Frontier</title>
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	<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/</link>
	<description>Untamed Beer</description>
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		<title>By: Brian Cendrowski</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cendrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-25</guid>
		<description>I need to seek out this Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic just to taste what makes you so sad.

I&#039;ve read that our sense of taste changes over time. So is this really a chicken/egg debate? Is it the repetition of a flavor that causes your body to adapt and thus begin enjoying the flavor. Or is it the natural adaptation of your sense of taste that changes to encompass a flavor you didn&#039;t like previously?

I offer two examples from my own experience: coffee and gin.

I did not like coffee for years and really didn&#039;t start drinking it until I was in my mid-20s. When I did start drinking it, I loaded it up with cream and sugar. Over time, I began cutting back on the sugar until I didn&#039;t use it, then cream until I didn&#039;t use it. Now, I only drink my coffee black, and adding cream and sugar is mildly repulsive. It seems that I caused the adaptation in my sense of taste.

Then there&#039;s gin. I was repulsed by gin for years and only tried it a couple times. Didn&#039;t like it at all. Too piney. Then at a Christmas party a few years ago, I decided to make myself a gin and tonic because, well, it was free. Suddenly, I loved gin and it became my favorite liquor. There was no long adaptation over time. It was like a switch was flipped.

So what&#039;s the answer? Perhaps both occur. Sounds to me like a good blog post topic for one of my upcoming weeks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I need to seek out this Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic just to taste what makes you so sad.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read that our sense of taste changes over time. So is this really a chicken/egg debate? Is it the repetition of a flavor that causes your body to adapt and thus begin enjoying the flavor. Or is it the natural adaptation of your sense of taste that changes to encompass a flavor you didn&#8217;t like previously?</p>
<p>I offer two examples from my own experience: coffee and gin.</p>
<p>I did not like coffee for years and really didn&#8217;t start drinking it until I was in my mid-20s. When I did start drinking it, I loaded it up with cream and sugar. Over time, I began cutting back on the sugar until I didn&#8217;t use it, then cream until I didn&#8217;t use it. Now, I only drink my coffee black, and adding cream and sugar is mildly repulsive. It seems that I caused the adaptation in my sense of taste.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s gin. I was repulsed by gin for years and only tried it a couple times. Didn&#8217;t like it at all. Too piney. Then at a Christmas party a few years ago, I decided to make myself a gin and tonic because, well, it was free. Suddenly, I loved gin and it became my favorite liquor. There was no long adaptation over time. It was like a switch was flipped.</p>
<p>So what&#8217;s the answer? Perhaps both occur. Sounds to me like a good blog post topic for one of my upcoming weeks&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bear</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-24</guid>
		<description>So here&#039;s the broader question I have for everyone. Can we acquire tastes for anything? And if so, is there such thing as good or bad or, is every experience either something we like or something we haven&#039;t acquired a taste for yet. 

It&#039;s a strange concept to imagine. After drinking Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic a couple of years ago I was certain there was no more vile tasting liquid and it was a cruel prank played on the world by a disgruntled Sam Adams employee. I was shocked to find other people tolerated this &quot;beer&quot; and even enjoyed this Satan in a glass.

So, the question is, do I need to just drink more lambics to acquire the proper taste? If so, is that nothing more than culinary Stockholm Syndrome? Are there forms of food, music, drink, design, and politics that are simply bad or are valid and good if the consumer has the proper taste?

I kinda hate to imagine a world where things like 
* Cranberry lambics
* Communism or
* The mid-90&#039;s New York Knicks basketball style
are consider good or valid.

At the same time I hate to imagine a world where
* Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA
* Capitalism or
* The mid-00&#039;s San Antonio Spurs basketball style
are consider bad or boring. 

I guess the proper answer is to say that most are valid and just the further to fringe an idea or a flavor gets the greater the chances of failure are. However, we should embrace these fringe flavors and try to acquire as many differing taste as possible. After all, variety is the cliche of life.

This could all be true. But I simply enjoy hating Sam Adams Cranberry Lambics too much to try to acquire a taste for these bottles of liquid sadness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So here&#8217;s the broader question I have for everyone. Can we acquire tastes for anything? And if so, is there such thing as good or bad or, is every experience either something we like or something we haven&#8217;t acquired a taste for yet. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a strange concept to imagine. After drinking Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic a couple of years ago I was certain there was no more vile tasting liquid and it was a cruel prank played on the world by a disgruntled Sam Adams employee. I was shocked to find other people tolerated this &#8220;beer&#8221; and even enjoyed this Satan in a glass.</p>
<p>So, the question is, do I need to just drink more lambics to acquire the proper taste? If so, is that nothing more than culinary Stockholm Syndrome? Are there forms of food, music, drink, design, and politics that are simply bad or are valid and good if the consumer has the proper taste?</p>
<p>I kinda hate to imagine a world where things like<br />
* Cranberry lambics<br />
* Communism or<br />
* The mid-90&#8217;s New York Knicks basketball style<br />
are consider good or valid.</p>
<p>At the same time I hate to imagine a world where<br />
* Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA<br />
* Capitalism or<br />
* The mid-00&#8217;s San Antonio Spurs basketball style<br />
are consider bad or boring. </p>
<p>I guess the proper answer is to say that most are valid and just the further to fringe an idea or a flavor gets the greater the chances of failure are. However, we should embrace these fringe flavors and try to acquire as many differing taste as possible. After all, variety is the cliche of life.</p>
<p>This could all be true. But I simply enjoy hating Sam Adams Cranberry Lambics too much to try to acquire a taste for these bottles of liquid sadness.</p>
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		<title>By: Gil Gerretsen</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil Gerretsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Good material, Brian.  I started drinking sours about two years ago and developed an almost instant affinity for them.  I guess my Dutch blood must have something to do with that. I now prefer wheats and sours almost exclusively, given the option (some restaurants only have the classic and boring staples).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good material, Brian.  I started drinking sours about two years ago and developed an almost instant affinity for them.  I guess my Dutch blood must have something to do with that. I now prefer wheats and sours almost exclusively, given the option (some restaurants only have the classic and boring staples).</p>
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		<title>By: tdtm82</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>tdtm82</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Good luck getting there! I am on the same mission too! I however short handed the years to about 5! I packed a lot of light weight beer when I was 18. Then a trip to Belgium and good friends helping me out elsewhere soon changed that!

I can not thank Half Moon brewery enough in Belgium and English ale of course. I was transformed. I enjoy gueze and lambic despite the negative reactions from folks I know. I enjoyed Cantillon and love Frank Boon&#039;s classic work. The man deserves a medal for his efforts. 

I have recently decided to join rate beer in order to improve my beer writing and obviously my knowledge too. Good luck. I&#039;m only 27 btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good luck getting there! I am on the same mission too! I however short handed the years to about 5! I packed a lot of light weight beer when I was 18. Then a trip to Belgium and good friends helping me out elsewhere soon changed that!</p>
<p>I can not thank Half Moon brewery enough in Belgium and English ale of course. I was transformed. I enjoy gueze and lambic despite the negative reactions from folks I know. I enjoyed Cantillon and love Frank Boon&#8217;s classic work. The man deserves a medal for his efforts. </p>
<p>I have recently decided to join rate beer in order to improve my beer writing and obviously my knowledge too. Good luck. I&#8217;m only 27 btw.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cendrowski</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cendrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-20</guid>
		<description>I commend you on your persistence in continuing to try sour beers. However, don&#039;t put too much pressure on yourself to force yourself to &quot;get it&quot; with the sours. I think we should always try new things because you never know when you&#039;ll find a new favorite, but the fact remains you like what you like. Can&#039;t always change that.

I had an interesting experience with gin that might give you hope. I didn&#039;t like gin for the longest time. Too piney. However, I was at a Christmas party a couple years ago and decided to make myself a Bombay Sapphire and tonic, because it was free and I wouldn&#039;t feel bad if I had to toss it if I didn&#039;t like it.

Well, I really liked it, and gin has been my liquor of choice ever since. It&#039;s like a switch was flipped. I&#039;ve heard that our tastes change as we get older, so who knows, maybe your sour switch hasn&#039;t flipped yet.

I&#039;ve had a heather ale or two. I&#039;m very fascinated with beers that are brewed with other herbs than hops. There are so many possibilities out there with other ingredients. I think it&#039;s time we bring them back and start exploring again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I commend you on your persistence in continuing to try sour beers. However, don&#8217;t put too much pressure on yourself to force yourself to &#8220;get it&#8221; with the sours. I think we should always try new things because you never know when you&#8217;ll find a new favorite, but the fact remains you like what you like. Can&#8217;t always change that.</p>
<p>I had an interesting experience with gin that might give you hope. I didn&#8217;t like gin for the longest time. Too piney. However, I was at a Christmas party a couple years ago and decided to make myself a Bombay Sapphire and tonic, because it was free and I wouldn&#8217;t feel bad if I had to toss it if I didn&#8217;t like it.</p>
<p>Well, I really liked it, and gin has been my liquor of choice ever since. It&#8217;s like a switch was flipped. I&#8217;ve heard that our tastes change as we get older, so who knows, maybe your sour switch hasn&#8217;t flipped yet.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had a heather ale or two. I&#8217;m very fascinated with beers that are brewed with other herbs than hops. There are so many possibilities out there with other ingredients. I think it&#8217;s time we bring them back and start exploring again!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cendrowski</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cendrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-19</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s comforting to know we&#039;re not alone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s comforting to know we&#8217;re not alone!</p>
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		<title>By: tnkw01</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>tnkw01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Brian, Fantastic article. It is so timely because I too am trying my feel for sour beers. It must be a universal theme of beer drinkers. I also started off with nasty beer and then tried venturing out. Even though my favorite beers now are dopplebocks and dunkels, I do love good, hoppy beers. I have been trying to acquire a taste for sour beers (for years actually); I just can’t seem to “get” it. But I keep trying. On the subject of the next frontier, may I suggest the William Brothers’ Heather Ales. They have one called “Fraoch”. It uses heather instead of hops and it is delicious. They have several others that venture into unusual ingredients (like seaweed) and they all have wonderful flavors. Again, great article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, Fantastic article. It is so timely because I too am trying my feel for sour beers. It must be a universal theme of beer drinkers. I also started off with nasty beer and then tried venturing out. Even though my favorite beers now are dopplebocks and dunkels, I do love good, hoppy beers. I have been trying to acquire a taste for sour beers (for years actually); I just can’t seem to “get” it. But I keep trying. On the subject of the next frontier, may I suggest the William Brothers’ Heather Ales. They have one called “Fraoch”. It uses heather instead of hops and it is delicious. They have several others that venture into unusual ingredients (like seaweed) and they all have wonderful flavors. Again, great article.</p>
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		<title>By: Joris P. Pattyn</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Joris P. Pattyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Brian, allow me to play a trick on you - after congratulating you on your brave article.

Salt(ed) beer not only exists, it&#039;s common! True, that is stretching it a bit, but let me explain.
As somebody mentioned already, the Leipziger version (not the elusive Gozlarer version, I&#039;m told) of Gose actually contains kitchensalt - if in minute quantities. It is more spicy than salty in character, however.
Really salty beer is well-known under the form of Rauchbier, as usual in Bamberg, Franconia and its surrounding area. The smoked malt imparts a really salty flavour, reminiscent of smoked ham or mackerel. American and other brewers have made their own versions of this old type of beer.
But a lot of common, not specifically prepared beers (can) have a salty streak. &quot;Mineral quality&quot;, as it is often known, expresses itself by being slightly salty, but this stays often hidden by other tastes as sweet, bitter, etc. When you start looking for it, and develop your palate, you will start finding it more often. Though I know it is considered derelict, the classical tongue-area map for tastes can help: search the alleged &quot;salt-area&quot;, and see if you find a reaction. Last, also the classical S-S links, that confer cooked vegetable flavours in small quantities, can get salty streaks when in larger doses: oysters, sea water - if not to all tasters.

One remark on sour beers. While it is true that most sour American ales are styled upon Belgian examples, it is not so that we invented sour beers. We just preserved them longer than the rest of the world - with some exceptions as Berliner Weisse. I would wager that 250 years ago and longer, sour was the norm everywhere, rather than the exception.

Success with more tasting and writing,
Joris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, allow me to play a trick on you &#8211; after congratulating you on your brave article.</p>
<p>Salt(ed) beer not only exists, it&#8217;s common! True, that is stretching it a bit, but let me explain.<br />
As somebody mentioned already, the Leipziger version (not the elusive Gozlarer version, I&#8217;m told) of Gose actually contains kitchensalt &#8211; if in minute quantities. It is more spicy than salty in character, however.<br />
Really salty beer is well-known under the form of Rauchbier, as usual in Bamberg, Franconia and its surrounding area. The smoked malt imparts a really salty flavour, reminiscent of smoked ham or mackerel. American and other brewers have made their own versions of this old type of beer.<br />
But a lot of common, not specifically prepared beers (can) have a salty streak. &#8220;Mineral quality&#8221;, as it is often known, expresses itself by being slightly salty, but this stays often hidden by other tastes as sweet, bitter, etc. When you start looking for it, and develop your palate, you will start finding it more often. Though I know it is considered derelict, the classical tongue-area map for tastes can help: search the alleged &#8220;salt-area&#8221;, and see if you find a reaction. Last, also the classical S-S links, that confer cooked vegetable flavours in small quantities, can get salty streaks when in larger doses: oysters, sea water &#8211; if not to all tasters.</p>
<p>One remark on sour beers. While it is true that most sour American ales are styled upon Belgian examples, it is not so that we invented sour beers. We just preserved them longer than the rest of the world &#8211; with some exceptions as Berliner Weisse. I would wager that 250 years ago and longer, sour was the norm everywhere, rather than the exception.</p>
<p>Success with more tasting and writing,<br />
Joris</p>
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		<title>By: mattmc1973</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>mattmc1973</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-16</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s funny to read the evolution of your beer knowledge/likes, as it mirrors mine almost exactly!

-Don&#039;t like beer
-Choke down some crappy beer and eventually acquire a taste
-Branch into English beers
-IPA&#039;s
-Start to dip your toe into the Sour world</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny to read the evolution of your beer knowledge/likes, as it mirrors mine almost exactly!</p>
<p>-Don&#8217;t like beer<br />
-Choke down some crappy beer and eventually acquire a taste<br />
-Branch into English beers<br />
-IPA&#8217;s<br />
-Start to dip your toe into the Sour world</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cendrowski</title>
		<link>http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/2009/11/19/sour-beer-the-last-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cendrowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancendrowski.hoppress.com/?p=3#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Have you ever had a gruit? It&#039;s a style of beer that was prevalent in the middle ages, before hops took over as the predominant herb in beer.

Gruits were made with all kinds of herbs, including mugwort, bog myrtle, wild rosemary, juniper, and many others.

I have no foundation for this, but I think gruits will make a comeback and will be the next trend we see in a few years.

Here&#039;s a post I wrote over the summer about &lt;a href=&quot;http://untamedbeer.com/2009/07/29/why-dont-we-gruit-in-the-road/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my experience homebrewing a gruit&lt;/a&gt;. It was a very interesting experience, and the beer turned out pretty good!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever had a gruit? It&#8217;s a style of beer that was prevalent in the middle ages, before hops took over as the predominant herb in beer.</p>
<p>Gruits were made with all kinds of herbs, including mugwort, bog myrtle, wild rosemary, juniper, and many others.</p>
<p>I have no foundation for this, but I think gruits will make a comeback and will be the next trend we see in a few years.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a post I wrote over the summer about <a href="http://untamedbeer.com/2009/07/29/why-dont-we-gruit-in-the-road/" rel="nofollow">my experience homebrewing a gruit</a>. It was a very interesting experience, and the beer turned out pretty good!</p>
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